Hi, it’s Patrik Hutzel from INTENSIVECAREHOTLINE.COM where we instantly improve the lives for Families of critically ill Patients in Intensive Care, so that you can make informed decisions, have PEACE OF MIND, real power, real control and so that you
can influence decision making fast, even if you’re not a doctor or a nurse in Intensive Care!
This is another episode of “YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED“ and in last week’s episode I answered another question from our readers and the question was
My Brother is Critically Ill in ICU. Will He End Up As Another Alfie Evan’s Story?
You can check out last week’s question by clicking on the link here.
In this episode of “YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED” I want to answer a question from one of my clients Megan, as part of my 1:1 consulting and advocacy service! Megan’s brother is critically ill in the ICU and she is asking why the ICU team suggests euthanasia for her brother.
Why the ICU Team Suggests Euthanasia For My Brother? HELP!
“You can also check out previous 1:1 consulting and advocacy sessions with me and Megan here.”
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Patrik: Yeah. So they were telling me that this whole, let’s just call it euthanasia for now, for lack of a better word. Let’s just say this whole euthanasia movement, which is not called that way, it’s driven by that group.
Megan: That doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
Patrik: That’s what they told me. Look, when they first told me about this, I was just like, “What is this group?” I had heard of them randomly, but I had no idea, then I did a bit of a Google search, so have a better idea now. I’m not too sure what I make out of it, whether it’s just sort of a conspiracy theory, I don’t know enough about it. But they are saying that this group are behind the drive for, again, let’s call it euthanasia for
now.
RECOMMENDED:
Megan: I mean, from what I know of that group and I’ve looked at them quite deeply, I would say it wouldn’t surprise me the slightest.
Patrik: You have or you haven’t looked into it?
Megan: I have, yes. I wouldn’t be even slightly surprised. And that’s not putting on a thin foil hat or anything. My immediate reaction was, that doesn’t surprise me.
Patrik: And look, and another thing again, one thing that I sort of observed when I lived in UK, and please don’t get me wrong there, I do feel like it probably to a degree, divorce rates are through the roof in UK. I was wondering sometimes, where are the values of people?
Megan: Yes. The values seem to have gone, completely been kind of slowly eroded. Slowly eroded. It’s like living in a completely different country to the one I was born into. The social changes have been absolutely devastating.
Patrik: Yes, yes. And that almost, with values going somewhere else or going out of the window, that almost gives some people, or might give some people the authority to do what they’re doing.
RECOMMENDED:
Megan: Indeed. Indeed. Absolutely. Yes. I agree with you 100%. Because if we went back to, for example, where my father was running his hospital, and you look at the Charlie Gard situation, Charlie Gard or Alfie, and I talked to my brother about this, I said, “Can you imagine Gard and his colleagues imprisoning a baby.” It wouldn’t have happened Patrik.
Patrik: No, it wouldn’t have happened.
Megan: It would not have happened. I’m sure of it.
Patrik: And now in this day and age, they’ve done this and the whole world watches it. Whereas, 20, 30 years ago, it wouldn’t have happened and the world couldn’t have watched it.
Megan: And the world couldn’t have watched it and wouldn’t have known about it really. The difference, Patrik, is so immense. It’s always mind-boggling, isn’t it?
Because you’re right. I mean, we used to have a wonderful culture and a wonderful country, and I obviously think about my dad’s hospitals and how ethical he was. I mean, just super, super ethical. Fantastic with his patients. Just wonderful. I mean, I know he wasn’t in ICU, but he was a general surgeon dealing with a lot of cancer, and those days general surgeons did everything, not everything, but a lot of different, it’s not as specialized then. And I just
remember how he’d come home if he lost a patient, or if he had to do a resection of the bowel or something, but he’d come home and he’d bring it home with him. He really-
Patrik: Yeah, because he made a connection with a real human.
Megan: Yes, yes, yes. And his patients loved him. And I just remember saying to Ryan, “I just can’t imagine this Alfie… I can’t imagine it would ever have happened.”
Patrik: No. Look, I know a bit more what was happening in the background as well without what was… A lot of it came to the media in the end, but there was a lot of other stuff happening where the family felt bullied from the start. And I know what some of the doctors said and they didn’t say, and one of the doctors apparently was saying very early on, “You know that we will be going to court with this if you don’t basically do what we
want.”
Megan: Yes, they were bullying them.
RECOMMENDED:
Patrik: Very much so.
Megan: And he said, the father, and he said, “I don’t really speak their language, so they’re overpowering me with superior medical knowledge and education. And they look down on me,” he said. Can you imagine, they looked down on him.
Patrik: They did. And what they did, they were disgusting. And what they did, I do remember that and I read it in the paper or somewhere online, when they first went to court, the judge apparently was asking him about sort of his personal situation and what he’s doing for a living or whatever. And I think he was working before this happened, basically, he was working as a bricklayer. And then he stopped working because he
basically spent the next 18 months next to his son. So then what I read in the court reporter was something along the lines of the judge asked him, “Oh, do you think you could develop your academic career as well down the line?”
Something along those lines. And I just go like, you are just so full-
Megan: What?
Patrik: Yeah. It’s just horrible. It’s documented, it’s documented.
Megan: Oh, Patrik.
Patrik: It just like asserting their authority like, “Oh yeah, we’re all academics here, and we’ll just we’ll just do whatever we want because you’re just a bricklayer.”
Megan: You know Patrik, that makes me just want to scream. And you know what, who do these people think they are? Number one. My dad, I mean, he was not only just a surgeon, he was a master of that, which is not what all surgeons have, but he never looked down on anybody. And who do they think they are? And who do they think would build the houses and these blocks of flats that they make so much money out of investing in?
Patrik: That’s right. It’s just horrible. But it was also a sign to me when I read that I just thought, because I sort of knew at the time what they were trying to do in the background, well, I just thought to myself, you are completely underestimating this situation.
Megan: Yes. And this young man.
Patrik: You are completely… Because one thing that he had going for him, and he had nothing to lose.
Megan: He had nothing.
RECOMMENDED:
Patrik: He had nothing to lose.
Megan: Nothing. He was quite magnificent because I know what these people are like. I mean, I’ve had a very small run-in with Dr. Gie as bad enough, but can you imagine Dr. Gie day in, day out, day in, day out, and trying to talk down to me about my education or my accomplishments or whatever. And they tried that a bit with Ryan, they have tried to sort of say, “He’s not as good as other people.”
Similar.
Patrik: Yeah, very much so. And that’s also again, and then please don’t get me wrong, having lived in the UK, but obviously was born in Germany, the UK is very much a class society. I just don’t know that from Europe, I just don’t.
Megan: No, it’s something peculiar to this country, and the strange thing is, that in a way it used to be far more benign, but now it’s become a sort of, there’s so much division here. But this class thing, this class divide and the education divide has become huge. And to be a bricklayer, to build houses, to do something with your hands, to me, it’s fabulous.
Patrik: That’s a skill.
Megan: It’s a skill. When your roof is leaking, you get a roofer and he’s got the skill and the experience to put it right. And all your university degrees are not going to mend your roof. And I just think the people who work with the hand, carpenters who make furniture and whatever it is, Ryan who does paintings, these are all skills as well.
Patrik: Very much so.
Megan: And they’re talents.
Patrik: And like even here, in Australia, there’s no class system here. And that’s something that struck me very early on when I lived the UK, I was just sort of, “Oh, Jesus, this is obviously a big deal where you went to school to, and who do you know?” It seems to be a big deal.
Megan: Yes, yes. You only have to look at the government to see where most of them went to school. And it didn’t have to be… It used to be more benign, is what I’m trying to say. It’s always been that. But now it seems to me, it’s become another thing that’s used to divide people. They’re so divided, horribly divided. And this thing of looking down on people for their educational qualifications, it’s just, I don’t know what to say. It’s part
of that same thing that you’re talking about. Imagine if everybody had a degree, who’s going to build the houses? Who’s going to repair your roof?
RECOMMENDED:
Patrik: The world wouldn’t go around.
Megan: Your leak, put in your new kitchen.
Patrik: The world only goes around with everybody doing their part.
Megan: With everybody doing their bit. Yes, we always have a role to play. The other thing, Patrik, which is strange, is this ideology of equality, which they use at some point, but if they really believe in it, they would know that Alfie Evans’ father is equal. If they really believe in equality, he’s equal to them. But they only use it.
Patrik: Yeah. I tell you what I think it was to a degree. It was to a degree they were trying to slam him publicly, so he would back down, obviously, they achieved the total opposite. And to a degree it was almost like they were trying to set an example like, if anybody of the “Lower class” is trying to cause a stir, we will show them what we do, but that backfired. And it chose to me that the courts and the Health System have no
understanding how a guy like him, or as people with any sphere of influence can use social media to their own good. How can they not see that in this day and age?
Megan: Unbelievable.
Patrik: Unbelievable.
Megan: They totally underestimated him.
Patrik: Not only him, but they underestimated the situation.
RECOMMENDED:
Megan: To the public.
Patrik: I was making some comments on Facebook, and then I had a personal message from somebody anonymous, telling me that if I don’t stop making comments, they will report me to the nursing board here. And I just said, whatever.
Because he was making a comment, the person who was anonymous was making a comment like, if I don’t stop making those comments, he will report me to the nurse’s board in Australia, and I could potentially lose my registration. But he also made a comment along the lines of that, I could only make those comments if I had access to the medical records, which I did.
Patrik: So I wasn’t really worried. But that was also a sign to me that people, or that the government, was probably investing resources to silence people on Facebook. Can you imagine? So the government was basically putting spice into Facebook, was looking up who’s commenting, and was probably looking up my name, who’s this person? How can we silence them? And I just got like, “Whoa, the government is investing in people trying to manage
the dynamics that they couldn’t manage.”
Megan: Yes, yes, yes, yes, exactly. Do you know Patrik, it’s very kind of sinister, it’s very kind of 1984, the whole thing. Very sinister.
Patrik: They can’t control Facebook anymore, it’s too late for that.
Megan: They can’t control it, no. And they’re trying on Twitter as well. It’s too big.
Patrik: It’s too big. And it’s also telling me that they don’t understand what these platforms can do. They have no idea.
Megan: No, no. Social media is so powerful.
Patrik: Very powerful.
RECOMMENDED:
Megan: Very. And I remember, his Facebook was flooded with posts and things to post, and outpouring about Alfie. I remember.
Patrik: Totally. But it wasn’t only Facebook. It was the mainstream media too.
Megan: It was the mainstream media as well. Yes. It wasn’t just Facebook. But the mainstream media was picking up on this as well. I don’t watch television, so I don’t know what angle they took. Were they sympathetic?
Patrik: Very sympathetic, very sympathetic. Because the only reason I know, is basically they were putting links on Facebook to those clips. I don’t watch British TV, but they were basically posting links to those clips on Facebook. So that’s how I watched a three-minute clip, basically, where they were interviewing. In the last few days, basically, they were basically waiting for that person to get out of the hospital and basically hold a
press conference.
Megan: Yes, I remember that.
Patrik: So they were very sympathetic. They gave him a platform.
Megan: Yes, yes, there were clips. I remember, yes. I think they were on that Alfie page as well.
Patrik: Yes. The media was giving him a platform.
Megan: Yes, he was giving interviews, there was so much press releases. Yes, I remember this.
Patrik: So whenever God forbid, whenever this situation comes up next again, the media knows what to do. And the family knows what to do as well.
Megan: Yes, because there is now the precedent, there’s now form and it will just follow the same-
Patrik: Correct, correct. So maybe in the meantime, who knows what’s happened behind closed doors, because Alfie Evans and Charlie Gard, they were extreme cases. But what we’re doing here, we’re looking after preterm babies at home.
When I say preterm babies, they go home after a year in ICU or whatever, but at the end of the day, the thing that got them in the situation in the first place is they were born prematurely. And here they get a chance. But there are preterm babies in UK, of course, and the next Alfie Evans is just around the corner. And I don’t wish it to anyone, but they can’t avoid that.
Megan: No, no, no. And do you think, Patrik, that in UK, with premature babies as well, like we’re saying, there is this same ruthless kind of…
RECOMMENDED:
Patrik: Well, I don’t know, because I haven’t worked in the pediatric space long enough in UK, and I haven’t had… Look, I haven’t had contact with Charlie Gard’s parents, but I don’t know, when this whole Alfie Evans thing happened, there was another baby in London, Drew, have you heard of him?
Megan: No.
Patrik: Right. He was a great baby as well. And the family contacted me as well, but he wasn’t quite as a high profile case as Alfie, but because it happened at the same time and Alfie had all the attention, so there was another baby Drew, he might’ve died a month before Alfie, very similar situation. The only thing that didn’t happen was, that they didn’t have, I think they were able to go to America, but they didn’t raise the funds.
Then the other thing that I believe was happening there, look, I could be wrong, his dad contacted me at some point, and then his mom, they both contacted me. His dad was actually a lawyer. But I think, look, I could be wrong. I could be terribly wrong. I do believe because he was a lawyer, he wasn’t fearless. I do believe he knew too much in terms of how much power the courts have.
Megan: No. And the other thing is, the lawyer might find his whole career ended.
Patrik: Yes, yes, absolutely. There was definitely some of that because even though we had a Facebook page as well, it was all very subdued.
RECOMMENDED:
Megan: Yes, not like Alfie.
Patrik: No, no, no, no, there was all very subdued and I could see there was too much… They had a bit of media exposure as well. They were in the Guardian and the BBC, but it was all very subdued. And I also wasn’t sure whether they were prepared to take help from the church. I’m not sure whether they were religious or, I don’t know enough.
Megan: No, no, no. I’ve never heard of this, which would follow that Alfie was really, he was taking all the attention at that time.
The 1:1 consulting session will continue in next week’s episode.
Kind Regards
