Hi, it’s Patrik Hutzel from INTENSIVECAREHOTLINE.COM where we instantly improve the lives for Families of critically ill Patients in Intensive Care, so that you can make informed decisions, have PEACE OF MIND, real power, real control and so that you can influence decision making fast, even if you’re not a doctor or a nurse in Intensive Care!

 

This is another episode of “YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED“ and in last week’s episode I answered another question from our readers and the question was

 

My Dad is in ICU and has been Weaned Off Sedation. How Long Does it Take for Him to Wake Up After an Induced Coma?

 

You can check out last week’s question by clicking on the link here.

 

In this week’s episode of “YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED”  I want to answer questions from one of my clients Camille, as part of my 1:1 consulting and advocacy service!  Camille’s brother is considered brain-dead in the ICU and Camille is asking what she will do because the ICU team refuses to give their hospital policy for brain death.

 

My Brother is Brain-Dead in the ICU But the ICU Team Refuses to Give their Hospital Policy for Brain Death. What Should I Do?

 

“You can also check out previous 1:1 consulting and advocacy sessions with me and Camille here.”

 

Part 1

 

Part 2

 

Part 3

 

Part 4

 

Part 5

 

Part 6

 

Part 7

 

Camille:  If there’s a way that Thaddeus Pope, if there’s a way that he can talk to a lawyer if he can, I would.

 

Patrik: Yes, yeah, yeah, that would be your last resort.

 

Camille:  That’s my last.

 

Patrik:  Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

 

Camille: And it’s like by the minute if he can talk to him and say, “Hey, can you take on this case?”

 

Patrik: Yeah.

 

Camille:   “Can you do urgent?.” Then we can go from there.

 

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Patrik:  I am pretty sure. No no, he’s in a similar time zone. He would be Central Time, wouldn’t he? Minnesota.

 

Camille:  Yes, yes.

 

Patrik:  Yeah would be, see I wasn’t.

 

Camille:   Oh, we’re in Central time.

 

Patrik:  You’re Central Time?

 

Camille:  Yes.

 

Patrik:  Right, right.

 

Camille: Right now, North Dakota Central Time.

 

Patrik:  So what you could do, once 09:00 tomorrow or whatever, his phone number is in the email.

 

Camille:  Yeah.

 

Patrik:  Right. I have spoken to him, I’ve done a couple of interviews with him in the past on my podcast… Right? But I’ve never actually phoned him to. He’s always been helpful but in all honesty, his help has always been like, “Oh yeah, here’s a list, contact this person, contact that person.” He’s always been very helpful in that respect. I would imagine try and give him a call tomorrow morning. His numbers are in the email.

 

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Camille:  Can you do that for me?

 

Patrik:  I could try that. I can try that for you.

 

Camille:   Because I’m really having to be there for my mother and your support is very-

 

Patrik:  No, no, I understand, I understand.

 

Camille: Yeah.

 

Patrik:  I’ll call him tomorrow morning.

 

Camille:  And ask him if he can talk to an attorney-

 

Patrik:   Yeah.

 

Camille:  Who will take it? Who will help me to intervene immediately?

 

Patrik: Yes. Yeah, yeah. No, no, absolutely, absolutely. I’ll tell you what I’ll do as a starting point because it’s now coming close to 11:00, your time. I will-

 

Camille:  So you can still send him an email, I’m sure he’ll read it.

 

Patrik:  Absolutely. No, no, I will send him an email. I’m driving at the moment as soon as I’m-

 

Camille:  Oh.

 

Patrik:  Stopping again. No no, all right. That’s all right. As soon as I’m stopping, I would send him an email with that request.

 

Camille:  Alright.

 

Patrik:  And as you know, he does respond.

 

Camille: Okay.

 

Patrik:  And what is the timeline? 05:30, your time tomorrow, Is it?

 

Camille:  Yes.

 

Patrik:  05:30 PM tomorrow, your time. So you’ve got another four, five. You’ve got another 18 hours basically, another 18 hours roughly.

 

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Camille:   Yes.

 

Patrik:  Yeah, yeah. Okay. So the police have no interest in that?

 

Camille:  No.

 

Patrik:   That’s shocking. That is shocking.

 

Camille:  Yeah, very much.

 

Patrik:  And the court, you haven’t spoken to them?

 

Camille:  Nope.

 

Patrik: Right, right. And with the hospital policies, what has your approach been like? Have you asked once, twice? What’s your approach been like?

 

Camille:  Twice and it was very direct. They also, they were very, very direct. “No.”

 

Patrik:  Right.

 

Camille:  “We talked to the doctor.”

 

Patrik: So wait, who did you ask for the hospital policy? The nursing staff?

 

Camille:  Yes. The head nurse, yeah.

 

Patrik:  You would never get to talk to the doctor directly?

 

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Camille:   No, because they said they don’t want to talk to me.

 

Patrik:  Wow. That in and of itself to me is medical negligence.

 

Camille:  Yeah.

 

Patrik:   I mean, that they have a duty of care for your brother as much as they have for you.

 

Camille: Yeah. I did talk to another doctor here. It’s in Washington though and he said, “Definitely malpractice.”

 

Patrik:   Absolutely, absolutely.

 

Camille: Yeah.

 

Patrik:   And this is the thing, if your brother was really brain dead, well then have it in black and white but that document that you sent to me is very vague. It almost says-

 

Camille: Yes.

 

Patrik:   “He might be brain-dead, we’re not quite sure and because of that we are not continuing, blah, blah, blah.” It’s almost a force towards organ donation, right? Because brain-dead is often being used to justify organ donation. If patients and families are agreeable to that.

 

Camille:  Yeah. Well if he can communicate tomorrow, I think that will be really, really good.

 

Patrik: No, no.

 

Camille: ASAP.

 

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Patrik:  Yes, no no, I will email Pope in the next hour.

 

Camille:  Okay, okay, all right.

 

Patrik:  And I will call him tomorrow, your time and we’ll see what comes out of it.

 

Camille:  Okay. All right.

 

Patrik:  Okay. And in the meantime, I tell you what, as a last resort as well, in the meantime, you may want to keep asking for the policies. Keep asking for it because you never know. You never know and you’ve got to keep the pressure on.

 

Camille: Yeah.

 

Patrik: Till the last minute. You’ve got to keep the pressure on. And because if they are refusing things that you’re asking for, you never know what comes out of this.

 

In retrospect, you might say, “Hey, I have asked for this and I have asked for that and I never got anything.”

 

Camille: Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah.

 

Patrik: Just keep the pressure on if you can. That’s what I would do. And I will email the Pope and call him.

 

Camille: Okay, Okay. That’s great. Thank you so much, yeah.

 

Patrik: Okay, thank you so much.

 

Camille:  So it almost sounds like The Vatican.

 

Patrik: Look, I’m not Catholic. I’m not Catholic, only like.

 

Camille:  No, I know. No, Pope The Vatican.

 

Patrik: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

 

Camille: Contact The Vatican.

 

Patrik: Yes, that’s right. I’m not sure whether he’s a religious person or not. I’ve never asked him.

 

Camille: No, he doesn’t need to be.

 

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• Why having a loved one critically ill in Intensive Care is a ONCE IN A LIFETIME situation and why YOU can’t AFFORD GETTING IT WRONG!”

 

Patrik:  No, he doesn’t need to be. You don’t need to be a Christian or a Catholic to be a decent person.

 

Camille: Yes, that’s right. That’s right.

 

Patrik: It’s just shocking what’s happening there.

 

Camille: I know, I know. I hope that he can communicate with somebody here.

 

Patrik:   Yeah, yeah.

 

Camille:   Because they’ve shut the doors to me. So if he can make a phone call to the attorney.

 

Patrik:   Yeah, yeah. So you think-

 

Camille:   I would be able to.

 

Patrik:  Right, it’s the fear of the attorneys towards the hospital, is that right?

 

Camille:   Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

Patrik:   Right, right. That is so interesting.

 

Camille:   Yeah.

 

Patrik:   So they build a reputation on that, almost.

 

Camille: Yes they have, yes. That’s right.

 

Patrik: My goodness.

 

Camille:  Yeah, yeah, I know. So I’m here in the room with my brother now and we’re here in the hospital. Yeah, so.

 

Patrik:  It makes me feel sick, it’s like when I was in similar situations as a bedside nurse, there would be a nurse tomorrow at 05:30 potentially stopping life support.

 

When I was in similar situations as a bedside nurse, I refused to do that. And I said to them, “That’s like going to execution and that’s not what I-.”

 

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Camille:  Exactly, that’s what I was telling my mom.

 

Patrik:  Right, right. And that’s not what I became a nurse for. I can accept that people are dying. I’m accepting of death, right?

 

Camille:  Yeah.

 

Patrik: I’m accepting of that. I am not accepting certain circumstances for death. I’m not accepting of that.

 

Camille:  Yes. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s so true.

 

Patrik:  Because that’s exactly the point, It’s the circumstance.

 

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Camille: That’s right. Is it raining over there? Is it cold?

 

Patrik: No, no. We are upside down. We are in Spring, October for us is Spring.

 

Camille:  Oh, spring time.

 

Patrik: We’re in the Southern hemisphere.

 

Camille: Oh yeah, yeah. Okay.

 

Patrik: So for us it’s spring now. It’s warming up towards summer, our summers here are very hot. Probably a bit like in North Dakota.

 

Camille:  Right, right. Here it’s cold right now. 43 Degrees.

 

Patrik: Right. Oh, that is cold.

 

Camille: So let me know tomorrow.

 

Patrik: Yes.

 

Camille:  I’d really appreciate that.

 

Patrik:  No, no, I’ll email him as soon as I, when I stop driving, I’ll email Pope and I’ll call him tomorrow.

 

Camille:  Okay. Okay, Okay. Yeah.

 

Patrik:  Okay.

 

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Camille:   Thank you so very much.

 

Patrik:   Thank you so much. All the best.

 

Camille:  Okay, Patrik.

 

Patrik:  All the best. Thank you.

 

Camille: Okay, okay. God bless.

 

Patrik:   Bye.

 

Camille:   Bye bye.

 

Patrik:   Bye.

 

The 1:1 consulting session will continue in next week’s episode.

 

Kind Regards